Stina: First one of those who has given Sweden the most goodwill during the past thirty years together with his co-musicians in ABBA. At the moment he's running between Sweden and London to finish the soundtrack for the movie "Mamma Mia!" with Meryl Streep in the leading part. But tonight he's here as a religion critics and humanist as well. Welcome Björn Ulvaeus!
(Orchestra playing a bit of Mamma Mia)
S: It's a special night tonight, it's the night of the ESC.
Björn: It is? Yes it is.
S: It's thirty-three years ago since you won with waterloo.
B: Thirty-three!
S: What was that like?
B: To win? That was fantastic! I had expected to end umber seven or eight
or something, to stand out and be seen in the beginning of our career. But then
this happened; we won. After this party I went to bed and suddenly it hit me;
now we can do what ever we want to do. The world is open! Just suddenly and that
was fantastic.
S: What did you think of your stage outfit?
B: Well, that wasn't the worst one we had, that was after this. What I
remember about this one was that it was so tight. The trousers were so
incredible tight. They picked us up by bus at the hotel to drive us to the arena
and I had to stand up in the bus. You can see that in pictures.
S: But it could not have been uncomfortable because you were dancing
around.
B: I could stand and move but not sit.
S: What are you not doing for the art. A couple of years later you made
your last appearance in Swedish television ever together as ABBA and you were
interviewed, do you remember who made the interview?
B: Was that you?
S: Yes it was. What a hazard! That was me and Sven Melander in the
TV-show "Nöjesmaskinen". One of the first interviews I made and the last one you
made (in ABBA). We'll watch a short clip.
(a short part of the 82' Nöjesmaskinen interview and live TFTM performance is
shown)
S: What did you feel watching this?
B: That was live and quite good to be live.
S: Very good. This was one of the first TV-interviews I made, and you
quit so early when you were so young in ABBA, why?
B: In fact it wasn't a break-up, we should take a pause and on this way
it is.
S: Oh, se we can look forward to a reunion.
B: I didn't say that!
S: You said a pause. That means you continue.
B: No but it felt like you should try something new at this point and
perhaps the energy had faded a bit. It didn't felt as pleasurable in the studio
at that time as I remember it.
S: Perhaps this had something to do with your divorces.
B: No, not at all. We made some of our best songs after our divorce, "The
Winner takes it All" and "Super Trouper". No, that was something else, that
everyone was to do something else. At this time we probably thought that after a
while we will make another album but it didn't turned out that was.
S: Not yet anyway.
B: No, and it wont be either.
S: You were offered a milliard dollar to reunite. If you're saying no to
this you have to be very wealthy.
B. No, it didn't have much to do with this. As I remember that was about
a year of touring and appear on TV and everything, and this would have taken ten
years out of my life. What I mainly was thinking about was having huge arenas
and forty- fifty thousand people who are really excited and then they will be
disappointed afterwards.
S: That's not for sure.
B: Yes they have to be because we are not like we were.
S: but at the moment you are very busy. Each second time I have spoke to
you, you are in London. How is it going?
B: It's actually rather done and it has worked really well. Benny and I
were a little nervous when the actors should come to the recording studio.
S: Meryl!
B: Merrl.did you notice how I said it in an all natural way!?
S: Meryl. You have never said "Meryl" before; you're always saying Meryl
Streep but you are "Meryl" with her.
B: I am Meryl with her. They are singing really good all of them so that
was all ok.
S: All of them, that's Pierce Brosnan, Stellan Skarsgård!
B: Stellan Skarsgård are singing like five lines.
S: How come it became Merryl?
B: She attended Mamma Mia in New York together with her children just
after it had opened. Then she wrote a long handwritten letter about how much
they loved Mamma Mia and how they went out buying every single ABBA record they
could find, and it was incredible nice and full of honours.
S: What did you replied to this?
B: We replied with gratitude of course, but then we made the casting for
Mamma Mia we first thought someone ten years younger than her but then we
thought a second time and thought ten years up and then she was natural. We had
watched a movie that she made ten or fifteen years ago were she's singing.
S: Yes, she's playing this country singer.
B. Yes, exactly.
S: She's great there. She really knows how to sing.
B: She does, really great. So we asked her, or our casting director did,
do you want to participate, can you imagine this? Are you kidding, I AM Mamma
Mia!
S: But you were sceptical to even make Mamma Mia the musical, why?
B: That's natural. Usually when writing a musical you starting with the
story and then perhaps music and words, but this was vice verse. So that was a
huge experiment, should it work to write the musical backwards to say? I said
one thing that was really important; the story is more important than the songs,
strangely.
S: You have had such incredible much of success. How much have you
enjoyed this success?
B: It's strange. I'm this kind of person focusing on the future and
always taking the next step.
S: So you're never present.
B: No unfortunately, during the ABBA time I wasn't present I would say.
It went on and on and on and on, when one thing was finished you was into the
next.
S: What are you thinking about this?
B: today I think it's a pity. I should have wanted to experience it in
another way. People are coming to me saying they got their best memory to this
and this song, and we were kissing each other the first time to this one, and I
don't have much of memories to the songs at all.
S: Not at all?
B: Well, we wrote this song in that way and then it turned into this
song. Yes, I remember the kicks when a song was finished and you felt that now I
have made something really good.
S: The creativity process than?
B: That was rather similar, which means we were playing from ten until
four o clock.
S: Almost a nine to five job but a bit shorter.
B: To focus in a way. As Benny use to put it that we were waiting for the
dragon in the cave, sitting outside the cave waiting. And the dragon is when
you're this idea is coming.
S: So how do you make him come?
B: That's the point. You're calling at him by actually sitting there playing and
tinkling all days long because suddenly he will come, otherwise he wont.
S: That sounds very unromantic.
B: Yes, doesn't it. It's very far away from this bottle of red wine and a guitar
and then it's done.
S: Like this "thing"
B: No, I don't think there are many people having it this way.
S: With so much of success, how is your self confidence?
B: Well, in some situations it's rather good but still I'm having a bad
self confidence sometimes.
S: In what situations?
B: I don't want to talk about this, no.
S: In what situations do you have a good self confidence? Then you can
use the method of elimination.
B: Right now it feels rather good.
S: How good. "Chess" and "Kristina Från Duvemåla" have you
and Benny made together but then Benny got his orchestra as well and are out in
the parks playing and seems to have really fun. Do you have any kind of musician
going on?
B: You mean like if I should take a couple of gigs with my guitar?
S: No I wonder, it seems like he having so much of fun being out and
play, can you feel a longing to participate in a context like this?
B: No I wouldn't exactly say so. I don't miss any of this. We never
really liked standing on stage, perhaps Frida did, but the other of us were more
like. We almost never toured at all, perhaps four of five months in a period of
eight years. So I think this is totally perfect. What I hope for now ids that we
will find an idea to write a new musical. Something to start with.
S: Are you sitting outside the cave of the dragon again?
B: Yes, that's the way it is. But this idea wont come either and you have
to search, but that would be fun.
S: I've asked you if to take part in my show many times and you have
always said no and now suddenly you said yes, how come?
B: That depends mainly on you of course.
S: That was false blandishment!
B: But then it was because of Ayaan who would come here and I never have
met and admires incredible much.
S: You're saying "Ayaan" just like you're saying "Merrly"
B: I've met her backstage.
S: Ayaan Hirsi Ali, this controversial Islam critic, why do you admire
her so much?
B: Because she's under a constant death threat and still she dares to
rise her voice and speak clearly about one of the biggest problems we have in
the west world, in Europe. How do you handle fundamental Islam? What shall you
do, turn the other cheek to or.And there are no one who speaks very open about
it except for perhaps her.
S: .and you have made it in a couple of contributions to the debate as
well, and we will speak more about this later. Thank you so much, Björn Ulvaeus.
B: Thank you.
..
S: You started to write debate articles suddenly, why?
B: September 11 had been and I had kept quiet through my entire career and not
said my opinion in different questions because I thought it was more interesting
with an artist who didn't said were he stood politically. Then I felt like, my
stomach were almost aching and I wanted to say something.
S: What did you wanted to day?
B: We're living in a secular society .
S: Church and government are separated
B: We have come very far but there's still more to do, equality between man
and woman and so on, since the?(can't find the englis hword for "Upplysningen")
and further and this has not been without suffering, we have fought for this.
Then it seemed lik, I think, as the religion started to slowly sneak into the
politic life, again.
S: In what way?
B: I t was so concrete with George Bush as a president "God is on my side" and
the americn so called fundamental right wing that seemed to have a lot to say in
the White House, and no to research on (stam) cells, trying to get the story of
the Bible side to side with the evolution theory in the schools and then the
Islamist, all this together. Then I had the feeling that now I have to say
something, we all who can say "stop, this doesn't belong here"
S: I thought perhaps you were affected by Villhelm Moberg who was an atheist;
you were working very intensively with his "Utvandrarna" when you wrote
"Kristina från Duvemåla". Are there any connection?
B: Yes, perhaps. My interest in religion has been strong for many years, but I
was fascinated that he who was a pronounced atheist still felt this respect and
tenderness for this lonely woman out in the outback of America. I could feel, of
course she has to have her religion. Some people need to have this.
S: .many people
B: Yes, and that's no problem with this, but it should not be inferred with
the politics and law.
S: So what reactions have you met?
B: Just positive, at least to 99%. No concrete threats, it has been cool.
S: There are still many religious people, so you should irritate a lot of
people.
B: Yes, but evidently I haven't.
S: You even changed the song you sang so well with ABBA "Thank you for the
music". How did you translate that one?
B: "Vem behövr religioner" (who needs religions) somewhere.
S: "Tack för allasånger, ord och toner, vem behöver religioner" (Thanks for
all songs, words and notes, who need religions)
B: Yes, music is better. That was instantly inspired by John Lennon.
S: Imagine
B: "Imagine no religion" he says and that one is sung in churches and such.
S: Why do you just receive praises while Ayaan Ali constantly gets dead
threats?
B: the difference is that I'm an ordinary not believer and she's a defector
.
S: Tonight it's the ESC, and Björn who is going to win?
B: I follow it if I can, the Swedish one and the international and I've been
listening to some of the entries and I think Sweden got a good chance again.